Naughty Kids in the Parks

by Adrienne Krock, staff writer
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Maybe not every kid is naughty, but they all seem to have moments, don’t they? Siblings fight. Kids climb on queues even when we tell them over and over again to stop. A kid acts out because he's not getting his way. Tell me it's not just me? We can’t always pull out a "Time Out" step at Disneyland. I'm not going to punish the whole family because one kid is acting out. This week we asked our Parenting Panel: How do you discipline your kids when on a Disney vacation?

Jen, also known as *Nala*, is an engineer, a Disney fan, and a MouseAdventure fanatic. She lives in Southern California with her husband and two future MouseAdventurers, ages 1 and 3. Jen writes:

I have a toddler and a preschooler. They are wonderful, sweet, energetic kids, but, like any other small children, they have their moments when they aren't on their best behavior. We've found that consistency works best for us when it comes to behavior, especially since we visit the Disneyland Resort often. Even at Disney parks, we tend to enforce the same rules that we do at home.

Redirection – For relatively minor things like pulling on the chains in line or whining about wanting to ride right now, we'll try to focus the kids' attention on something else. Little kids, or at least mine, are a lot like Dory: "Hey look! Something shiny!" This can be anything from asking them to point out colors of ride vehicles and think about which one they might want to choose, to giving them a small snack to eat in a long line. We've even brought a small bottle of bubbles to use in line, which had the added bonus of entertaining quite a few kids at once.

Time Out – Our 3-year-old son knows time out as "go sit," and Disneyland is full of places to go sit. When it comes down to it, we're essentially just wasting his time. There's not much worse for a small kid than having to sit on a park bench watching the fun happen around you. We'll tell him to sit for things like hitting his sister, screaming at stuff, or trying to run off on his own.

Get Out of Line – This is not something I've done often, and I hated to do it, but it's worked. One day, my son was whining in every line, and, eventually, started screaming that he wanted to ride while waiting for Mickey's Fun Wheel. I asked him several times to stop. Finally I told him "If you scream one more time, we will get out of this line and not ride. Do you understand?" He said yes. Not a minute later he was screaming again. So I felt like the meanest mom in the world, but I carried him kicking and screaming out of the line. He calmed down and figured it out. Now if he starts whining in line and I ask him "What happens if you scream in the line?" he will answer, "We go out." Usually, that's enough.

Rewards for good behavior – It's Disneyland, after all! It's not all about punishment and discipline. When the kids are being especially good, we'll reward them with anything from a special snack to letting them pick what we do next. Our last day at Disneyland was like this. They shared, they ate good lunches, they took their naps in the stroller, and they waited their turn in lines. We took them to Sarge's in Cars Land and let them each pick out a small toy, and Ramone and Sally came home with us at the end of a great Disney day.

Chris, also known as GusMan, is always planning his next family trip to the Walt Disney World Resort and loves to help others plan their trips, as well sharing his experiences. Chris writes:

I have to be real honest, and I hope this does not sound like I am bragging, but I am very fortunate to have kids that are very good travelers and tend to get along the vast majority of the time. However, that does not mean that they don’t have their moments. After all, they are siblings and they are bound to annoy, pick at, tease, or somehow set the other person off at some point in the trip. (Not to mention setting off one of the parents as well.) It may be in good fun, but it can be disruptive for the whole family, not to mention fellow guests in the surrounding areas.

I’ve mentioned in the past that being prepared helps predetermine many different reactions to certain situations. At the same time, being very observant and reacting accordingly can also help set some good examples for acceptable behavior. Keep in mind that many kids don’t misbehave because they are at Disney. They simply continue behaviors that are accepted at public places around home. With this in mind, talk to your kids about acceptable public behavior and practice such teaching during your everyday activities. Take the time to calmly correct them, and then talk about what you observed when you get home. Use your upcoming trip as a teaching tool and milestone of sorts for good behavior, explaining that there will be actions taken for bad behavior while on vacation.

While on vacation, my wife and I would make sure that we calmly correct our kids when they start veering away from what is acceptable. We do warn them, explaining what they should do, and then if needed, take action. This very well may mean that one of us parents steps out of line and the child misses out on the attraction. Unfortunately, this means the parent has to sacrifice the attraction, as well. During that down time, use the moment to make sure they understand what they are missing and why. This is especially the case if what they are doing can cause a safety issue, such as swinging on a queue rope or dangerously hanging over a railing or similar. But the key thing is – keep it calm. I know that it can be tempting to react in a way where everyone can see what is going on, but it can trigger a meltdown of sorts, which can very well escalate the situation.

At certain times, if the siblings are the main cause for the strife, it might be a good idea to consider spit up the activities of the day to redirect the focus and to avoid the situation all together. Granted, this does have several disadvantages, the primary one is that you somewhat take the “family” out of “family vacation.” Each parent can use the one-on-one time to take about the trip and expected behavior while still enjoying the sights. You can always regroup later in the day with the hope that things will be better. I will say that this option does work better for repeat Disney visitors as splitting up may even be a part of your travel plans.

A Disney vacation can be a great time for the family. Prepare your kids for what they will experience and chances are, you will avoid many issues, or at least keep them to a minimum.

MousePlanet columnist Chris Barry, his wife Diane, 14-year-old Samantha, and twin 10-year-olds, Casey and Alex, live on Long Island and are all major Disney and Walt Disney World fans. Chris writes:

It seems to me that a lot of parents suspend all the rules when they head to down to Walt Disney World for vacation. Granted we all chip away at the rulebook a little. I can’t imagine letting my kids stay up past midnight just to play or watch TV at home. Yet, some of those Extra Magic Hour late nights in the Magic Kingdom Park have taken us well past midnight. Or how about ice cream at 10 p.m. or 11  p.m. just before bed? Not happening on your average Tuesday. But, hey, we’re on vacation, right? Things are a little looser. Now, I don’t want to sound like too tough a parent, but on vacation we still try our best to stay within the general rulebook, and that especially goes for behavior. We expect them to act the way they’re supposed to act. They know that and for the most part, they do act accordingly.

Twin boys will be twin boys however, and they can get under each other’s skins and begin fighting or climbing on walls, and acting in a way that they know they aren’t supposed to. Usually, we have a good stern look that they know all too well. It means Mommy and Daddy have ceased being amused and we want the behavior to change. They’re pretty conditioned to that look. Just because we’re on vacation doesn’t mean that look or the equally stern voice is on vacation, as well. We don’t change our expectations on behavior just because we’re visiting Mickey Mouse and they know that. But what comes after the look or the raised angry voice? For us there are really two threats that work well.

The first is the Disney gift card. Inevitably, my boys will receive a Disney gift card before their vacations from one or the other set of grandparents. They know that this is their lifeblood to toys, pins, and whatever else they love to purchase and bring home. It helps them easily keep track of how much they have to spend and how much is left. Mom and Dad never relinquish the card though, and it’s the biggest carrot to dangle in front of them. “Keep it up… and the card gets taken away…thrown away… cut up… or worse beyond reason… given to your sister!” This is a pretty solid deterrent for them and it usually keeps them in line.

The second threat is pretty much surrounding you at all times. They love being in the parks and quite simply, the threat of going back to the hotel and sitting there, no TV, no pool, no bag of toys—just siting there—usually cracks them into shape. I’ve called their bluff on several occasions and started heading swiftly toward the park exit with the threat of going “home.” You’d be surprised how much that works if you sell it really well.

That last part is really the key to it all. YOU have to sell it. The rulebook can’t be tossed out completely once you drive through the Walt Disney World arch. They still have to understand clearly that there are consequences. Find something that they really latch onto—sweets, meeting characters, time in the pool, a specific attraction—and take it off the menu unless they start behaving. If the threat fails, then be prepared to turn on the act and head to the park exit. Or grab a bench and make them sit there and not have fun for a while. Hopefully you can send the rest of the family off on their way and they will realize they are missing out on the fun and whip themselves back into shape.

The parks and resort itself are the biggest “carrot” that they have to fully earn to fully enjoy. Train them that way, don’t turn off Mom and Dad rules as soon as you get there and you shouldn’t have too many problems.

Lastly, and this is something that we see all to often at Disney, learn to read the signals that your kids are giving you. Just because the Magic Kingdom is open until 3 a.m. doesn’t mean that the 4-year-olds need to be there. Some can handle it. Yes, it’s a special treat; it’s Disney, etc. Most of the time, however, a kid is acting out because they are tired, hot and/or over-stimulated. Go back to the hotel and cool off or rest. Don’t push them too much and you’d be surprised how the behavior turns around.

It's your turn—keep the discussion flowing!

Visit the Parenting in the Parks forum on our MousePad discussion board, and share your opinions about this topic or many others, or send your suggestions via e-mail. Reader-submitted tips might be used in a future article, and you might be selected to participate in an upcoming panel discussion!

Comments

  1. By megzrg

    I have to say that I love reading the parenting panel posts, they are so full of little things here and there that I can use for myself or to pass on to other parents.

    I really admire Jen in this case for pulling her kid out of line to teach a lesson. I think that makes you a great parent, not a bad one. I think we are parents need to offer encouragement to each other more when we see a parent stepping out and taking advantage of a teachable moment, whether it is just in the form of a smile or backing them up by saying something like "Thanks for doing that, I am going to try that with my kid next time" or "I've had to do that with my kid before also". Too many times we feel guilty for disciplining in public, which I think is why some kids act like brats in places like Disneyland, because they know their parent isn't going to do anything.

    For us, I honestly can't remember ever having any major problems with my son in the park, but I am also dealing with one child which is so much different than multiple children. I also have teenage parent amnesia, where my mind thinks that my child was an angel when he was younger compared to this growing, hormone-filled, pre-adult that is occupying my previously perfect angel of a child's body.

    One thing I remember that helped A LOT though, was to make sure that he took a nice nap in the afternoon when we were vacationing in the park. This helped tackle three behavior issues all at once for us.

    One: It prevented him from getting overly tired and cranky at night
    Two: It got both of us out of the park during the heat of the day (which helps keep tempers from heating up)
    Three: It gave him a break from all the fun and over stimulation (which can lead to meltdowns just as fast as being over tired)

    He is now 14 and we still head back to the hotel in the afternoon for naps and pool time. It has just become such a habit for us in the 10 years we have been vacationing in Disneyland that we figure that "if it isn't baroque don't fix it"

  2. By adriennek

    Quote Originally Posted by megzrg View Post
    I have to say that I love reading the parenting panel posts, they are so full of little things here and there that I can use for myself or to pass on to other parents.

    Yeah!! Thank you!

    I know one hard thing for me is picking a consequence I'll actually follow through on. It's really easy for me to say "You will have to sit out on the next ride" and actually DO that, but it's so tempting "Do you want to leave RIGHT NOW??"

    Yesterday I went with just my youngest and he was being a challenge. I knew I wasn't willing to turn around RIGHT away and go home. So I had to think fast. I took him aside, got on his level, looked him in the eye - I gave him a little lecture (yeah, I did,) and then I said "This is it - The next time you do this, I'm taking away dessert. The time after that, we WILL go home." And it worked. He was brilliant for the rest of the day. There were a couple of times he got a little cranky - mostly because he was tired or hungry.

    Which is the other big red flag: When the kids act up, I ask myself "When was the last time they ate and what did they have?" Sometimes sugar overload is as bad (or worse) than being hungry. I try to balance the sugar with protein to avoid the overload. And they carry water bottles to keep hydrated.

  3. By Drince88

    I think this article hit two of my biggest 'things' as a non-parent: Follow through, and give them a fighting chance.
    I REALLY tire of hearing parents say over and over and over: 'If you keep doing this Johnny, we're going to leave'... 'If you keep doing this Johnny, we're going to leave'... etc There have been times I've come REALLY close to saying 'Would you leave already, clearly Johnny is not going to stop doing that'!

    And by give them a fighting chance: make sure they're adequately rested, fed, hydrated, and cooled. I know I get grumpy when any of those things happen, and it's just not fair to the kid to expect them to be angels if you let their reserves get too low! And honestly, that's why I have recommended lunch ADRs instead of dinners for parents of preschoolers in particular, who aren't sure how their kids are going to handle the unusual bed, excessive stimulation, etc.

  4. By mckat

    One of my wisest moments as a Mom was actually just dumb luck (like many of my best moments). I realized, I too "misbehave". I found myself one of our first trips getting really angry and frustrated. It was for a good reason (daughter would not stay with the group). But definitely caused a bad attitude on my part. Since then, I've tried when at Disney to live by the mantra- it's all about your attitude. (generally true, but I do a better job at disney). So I have over the years enlisted my kids and we all keep an eye on each other, watching for each others attitude slipping into grumpy areas. Then we have a kind or funny way to remind each other. Like "Hey we are Disney". Or my son just gives me that knowing smile and says he loves me. I usually then take a deep breath, smile and apologize- or just wink. I of course keep an eye on them too. But the knowledge that we all have trouble doing the right thing, and it isn't just about punishment (I also parent my kids behavior as a Mom as well) but sometimes about helping each other be the best. As I said, it really was just a small idea. But I think it has helped them see I parent because it is an important job, and they see I try to change too.

  5. By dsnyredhead

    It is good to know your child/ren. A one size fits all doesn't work since all kids are different. Many of the traditional methods of punishment simply will not work for certain kids. My son is known to laugh at punishments. He will actually try to push it to see if we will follow through and then throw a tantrum if we do..which makes things worse. I think the best approach is a good talk with your child before going to the park so that they know what is expected and how they should behave. Breaks during the day help too. Listen to your child...if they say they don't want to do a certain ride, don't push them. if they are hungry, stop for a break and eat. Sometimes you simply have to ignore stares and comments from unknowing bystanders as well. Not every child has learned to control their emotions and reactions.

  6. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by adriennek View Post
    Yeah!! Thank you!

    I know one hard thing for me is picking a consequence I'll actually follow through on. It's really easy for me to say "You will have to sit out on the next ride" and actually DO that, but it's so tempting "Do you want to leave RIGHT NOW??"

    That is the biggest thing, consistency. My youngest is Aspie, and it was probably what made life workable for us. I knew I had to follow through with all my kids, but even more so for her. I knew if I said "Do you want to leave?" I better be prepared to leave. When I had told the older kids "You will meet me at 2pm ON the bridge or you lose the right to do your thing", and found my oldest off the bridge wandering in the hub area (MDM and Escape Artist were sitting on the bridge waiting) even though I knew he would whine the whole time, he had to stay with me, while the other two were released to go ride big kids rides, while he got to watch the parade with me and Youngest.

    My nieces are great kids, but can be spunky. They know we give a lot, but expect proper behavior. They usually have 1 incident a trip (Adk witnessed one a couple years ago) Well, our first day of the last trip, they had swam, we went to dinner, then to Fantasmic! Soemhow between dinner and Fantasmic! they decided to squabble. MDM warned them, it continued... They did pull out of it by the time Fantasmic! started, but it was enough for MDM... The next morning, we hit the park running. About 10am, MDM hits an ice cream cart. The nieces (12 and 8) follow her. MDM orders 1 ice cream sandwich. The ODV CM sees the 2 nieces drooling and says "Anything else?" and MDM says "No just 1." She sees the look on the kids faces and says "Remember before Fantasmic!" They shook their heads yes... "Maybe next time..." And not a single squabble the rest of the trip. And they got an ice cream an hour later.

  7. By bennette

    Quote Originally Posted by dsnyredhead View Post
    My son is known to laugh at punishments. He will actually try to push it to see if we will follow through and then throw a tantrum if we do..which makes things worse.

    My non parenting skills are showing. Isn't the above what most kids try when disciplined? At least when you start?

    I ask because you could be describing my niece exactly when she was younger--she is challenging in ways her brother is not--but she sure learned quick that didn't fly at my house. She does need a little more flexibility and her parents know precisely where her limits are but...tantrums have consequences for her. Definitely this is hard for her and her parents but I don't know how it could be avoided when we know she's going to be growing up and spending more time in the "outside" world.

    She still struggles at nine; it's an ongoing thing with her. But her life seems a lot more enjoyable now that she has a stronger handle on how to manage herself.

  8. By adriennek

    Quote Originally Posted by bennette View Post
    She still struggles at nine; it's an ongoing thing with her. But her life seems a lot more enjoyable now that she has a stronger handle on how to manage herself.

    My middle son, mercifully, skipped the tantrum thing. My bookends? Not so much. The highlight of eldest was the tantrums in Target. Once I got seriously consistent about not tolerating them, anytime, any where (even in the middle of Target where people were staring,) they went away. Sometimes that meant sitting down on the floor of Target with a tantruming kid. Yep. Did that. I used to say to him "Unfortunately for you, your mother doesn't embarrass easily..."

    Youngest has had a different tantrum pattern (different kids are different!) But the approach has had to be the same: Any time, any where, don't back down.

    I'm seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, at 9. Wednesday at Disneyland, he knew, one tantrum, we're going home. He had some big feelings. But he found a way to manage them!!

    Today, he knows he has a play date at a friend's house to go swimming, on the line. I told him one time, at the first sign of a "big feeling" - I will call your buddy right now if I have to. He got unhappy with me at a grocery store, and I started to cringe, ready for it to start, ready to not cave - HE MAINTAINED!!!!! I started to get upset with him and I caught myself!!! I said "You're doing a good job of not blowing up." Instead of reminding him that if he blew up, I'd call his buddy. Sometimes, even giving him positive reinforcement gets him upset. When he's mad, every little thing can set him off. But the key is following through, even when I don't want to.

    I'm calling this one a battle won. The war isn't quite over - and it hasn't been easy - but we're getting there.

  9. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by bennette View Post
    My non parenting skills are showing. Isn't the above what most kids try when disciplined? At least when you start?

    Oh yes. I always tell people "Its going to get worse before it gets better" when they opt to change their parenting. The child/kid/young adult learns if I do this, I get this. When you change, they will keep trying, and they will escalate trying to regain the power. It isn't until they realize they have lost the power, that they will cease fighting.

    Every child has their "currency", and it is true, every child is different. I have raised 4 very different children. But the one thing that wasn't different was me. I set limits and boundaries, and all 4 kids knew what they were. My neuro-typical child and my Aspie child and my ADHD kids were all different, but all knew failure to sit in their seat at a restaurant was not tolerated. All knew throwing a fit would result in further consequences. My SIL once asked me how I got my kids to stay in time out. My answer? Because they don't want to go to the next level.

    I have nephews whose parents let them do whatever. It is too hard to discipline them, so they get away with everything. But they are smart. They know Auntie Mal doesn't deal with it. When around me alone, they are fine. If their parents are around, its useless. I have been known to discipline all, including my brother. (No, we aren't riding Indy even though it is a 10 min wait because your child is acting up!)

    Honestly? The secret is consistency. Every child WANTS and NEEDS rules, boundaries, and limitations. They may not LIKE them when it impedes their immediate desires, but they do want them.

  10. By relaaxedwheniamthere

    every child wants & needs rules amen sister. at least once every vacation a meal is ruined by a misbehaving child while the supposed parent is either drinking heavy or to stoned to notice . common sense is so short today .

  11. By dsnyredhead

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    That is the biggest thing, consistency. My youngest is Aspie, and it was probably what made life workable for us.

    Malcon10t, my son is Asperger's as well. I realize that most kids will push things as bennette said, but I'm guessing you know more than anyone what we go through on a daily basis. My son laughs in the face of punishment then screams bloody murder when we follow through. Sounds like a toddler thing but he is 9. We're working on teaching him to calm down but it's hard when they do not want to accept why that behavior is unacceptable.

  12. By SigalTchelet

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    Honestly? The secret is consistency. Every child WANTS and NEEDS rules, boundaries, and limitations. They may not LIKE them when it impedes their immediate desires, but they do want them.

    THIS!!! I may not be a parent, but I was a pre-school teacher for many years. This is a very important lesson to learn! My brother still thinks I don't have a clue about kids. 5 years ago when my niece and nephew were 4.5, we were at a hotel swimming pool, and he kept yelling at them to stop running. He did not believe me when I told him I could get them to stop running. I yelled Red Light and they stopped in an instant. The other thing I do if I see a kid running is just call out "Walking feet!" in my teacher voice. Kids crave limits to prove you care.

  13. By cstephens

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    My neuro-typical child and my Aspie child and my ADHD kids were all different, but all knew failure to sit in their seat at a restaurant was not tolerated. All knew throwing a fit would result in further consequences.

    I'm curious, do you remember how far any of the kids went in pushing the limits and/or throwing a fit afterward? Cause I see that kind of thing in stores, and I just shake my head at them. Kid is misbehaving already and being disruptive/messing with stuff in the check-out line. Parent gives a half-hearted attempt to curb it. Then, kid finds a candy they want and pesters parent for it. Parent says no a few times, but the kid keeps asking, louder and more demanding each time. Eventually, the parent gives up and lets the kid have it. And the parent looks at me and says something like, "It's only one candy, and it'll keep him quiet" and seems to expect me to nod understandingly. I pretty much just stare. So your kid was misbehaving and you've rewarded him with candy. You don't think he's going to remember that next time? You've just taught him what he can get away with.

  14. By dsnyredhead

    Quote Originally Posted by cstephens View Post
    Eventually, the parent gives up and lets the kid have it. And the parent looks at me and says something like, "It's only one candy, and it'll keep him quiet" and seems to expect me to nod understandingly. I pretty much just stare. So your kid was misbehaving and you've rewarded him with candy. You don't think he's going to remember that next time? You've just taught him what he can get away with.

    At that point that he is throwing a tantrum, we simply leave. No candy. I've left full grocery carts at the checkout lane before and have gone back once he is calm. I've gone home and waited for Jeff to get home so I could go shopping without my son at times as well.

  15. By *Nala*

    Quote Originally Posted by dsnyredhead View Post
    At that point that he is throwing a tantrum, we simply leave. No candy. I've left full grocery carts at the checkout lane before and have gone back once he is calm. I've gone home and waited for Jeff to get home so I could go shopping without my son at times as well.

    Yep, I've carried my 3 year old out of stores and restaurants if he's in full on screaming tantrum mode. If he's generally behaving but randomly screams for one particular thing we'll talk about screaming for stuff and if it's something I wouldn't mind him getting (like grapes at Trader Joe's last week), I'll ask him "how do you get things?" and he will then ask nicely and say please.

    I do try not to judge parents in similar situations who make different choices, though it can be hard when you see a kid is pitching a fit and then goes home with a candy bar or a new toy. But having a toddler is exhausting and sometimes it is not worth the fight. That doesn't mean I let them get away with murder, but there are times I pick my battles or just try to redirect their attention.

  16. By dsnyredhead

    Quote Originally Posted by *Nala* View Post
    That doesn't mean I let them get away with murder, but there are times I pick my battles or just try to redirect their attention.

    Definitely. I don't know that there is a right or wrong way to parent.....each child and each parent is different and needs to decide for themselves what works best for them and their child and the situation. Different techniques are important based on the child's ability to understand things. Not every child processes information the same way.

  17. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by cstephens View Post
    I'm curious, do you remember how far any of the kids went in pushing the limits and/or throwing a fit afterward? Cause I see that kind of thing in stores, and I just shake my head at them. Kid is misbehaving already and being disruptive/messing with stuff in the check-out line. Parent gives a half-hearted attempt to curb it. Then, kid finds a candy they want and pesters parent for it. Parent says no a few times, but the kid keeps asking, louder and more demanding each time. Eventually, the parent gives up and lets the kid have it. And the parent looks at me and says something like, "It's only one candy, and it'll keep him quiet" and seems to expect me to nod understandingly. I pretty much just stare. So your kid was misbehaving and you've rewarded him with candy. You don't think he's going to remember that next time? You've just taught him what he can get away with.

    We have a favorite line in our family, "You don't negotiate with terrorists." A 2yo throwing a tantrum is a terrorist within the family. You give in, you have taught them the tantrum works to their advantage. When you are in public, too many worry about what people are thinking of them when their child throws a fit. They give in because they don't want to make a scene, but they have just taught the child how to gain the power.

    I started when the kids were very young. No meant no. I have walked out of a grocery store because my child was escalating. "I'm sorry, here's my cart. We need to leave." Escalation meant further consequences.

    But there is also a thing for setting the child up for success. You don't start teaching a child to behave in a restaurant IN a restaurant. You start at home, then progress to someplace that if the behaviors aren't what you expect, you can exit quickly before you try a nice restaurant. You don't try doing something where you need good behavior during the child's nap time, or when they might be hungry. You try and make the first time a perfect time so they learn "This excellent behavior is what we like" and you do reward it!

    I'm trying to think of my kids escalations. Escalations generally resulted in a time out and loss of any potential rewards. Most of the kids knew I would let them ride the horses outside a grocery store if all went well. And they did like that. As they got older, their "currency" changed. I did do one thing I always said I would not do. One of MDM's currencies was books. I always swore I would never take books away from a kid. But if you grounded her for something, she would just grab a book, and she was still in heaven. So, I took away books once.

    At Disneyland, the worst was taking rides. They hated that. But they also knew if they escalated, we would leave the park. It wasn't an empty threat.

    It really is hard for parents who are trying to establish the power if it doesn't start when the child is young. If the child has the power, and the parent is trying to establish they now want the power, the child will escalate like normal, and if the parents don't relent, they will go further and louder trying to regain the power. It will take consistency and time to "realign" the leadership roles.

    That said, if a child has issues, set them up for positive behavior. For example, my ADHD son had real problems sitting traditionally in a restaurant. We made concessions. He was allowed to sit on his knees or perch in his seat as long as 1. he behaved and 2. it wasn't disturbing others. If we had a table, he could stand at his spot, but there was no moving around, walking around, moving away from his spot.

    As far as my Aspie escalating, I can remember it happening a couple times. Those times she came to realize were not worth it. Several have been with me when Youngest might have started the wrong way, and even now, we redirect her. Sometimes you simply have to say "We don't say yuck about a new food." Or "We don't make faces (about food) at the table." She is an adult now, but still needs help knowing what is appropriate.

    I know a lot of parents really are great parents. The problem is parents who fail to parent stand out more than the ones who do. I admire the ones who will go to the hotel and check out because their child "isn't up" to staying longer and they head home. (You know who you are...) That is SO MUCH MORE work than just ignoring the behaviors and allowing the child to just melt down. But, it will pay off in the long run because the next time, the child will know you are serious, you have done it before.

    But you need to know your child. Is the cause of the behavior something they need help with? Are they hungry? Are their shoes on the wrong feet? Do they need less stimulation? Do they need a nap? Even as an adult, MDM needed help recognizing when she needed food. There is so much going on, parenting is not for the weak!!!

  18. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by *Nala* View Post
    But having a toddler is exhausting and sometimes it is not worth the fight. That doesn't mean I let them get away with murder, but there are times I pick my battles or just try to redirect their attention.

    I understand, and agree to a degree. You do pick your battles. For example, MDM started dressing herself at 18 mos. She liked what she liked. It wasn't a battle that was important to me. If she wanted to wear a plaid shirt with striped pants, I didn't fight. Wasn't worth it. But once I said no, she had to wear the pink pantsuit (inside joke) there isn't going to be a power struggle. And I would "fight" because I knew if I gave in then, I would lose in the future. And she knew if I was saying no, there was a reason and I wasn't giving in.

    If the child is throwing a fit, and are given the candy bar, what will happen in the future? They are being set up for failure.

  19. By MammaSilva

    I'm reading along and nodding my head to every single thing Mal has said, my favorite line with missy is brain damaged not stupid. I got the best advice ever when she was 9 months old, a dear friend with a child with disabilities was with me one day when Missy was testing ... and even at 9 months she tried, I didn't let her get away with the fit and my friend said to me, the more normal you treat her the more normal she will be. That meant, do not let the issues be excuses for poor behavior. Accept the limitations but be prepared to find solutions that work within her capabilities. I followed that advice so strongly that she has been blessed to have lunch at Club 33 and I know that when the server 'reports' to our host that we'll get stellar reviews on her behavior. I have been with the same mom that Mal mentioned and I can't express my admiration and respect for her skills as a mom. When she speaks to her sons it's with a calm tone but with no nonsense. If she makes a statement they both know that she is not going to back off or give in and both of her sons have special challenges that would make parenting harder for anyone. The bottom line in parenting is being consistent and being willing to put in the work. Watching another mom do a basket hold on her toddler in the middle of target comes to mind. You do have to pick your battles but don't lose when you do.

  20. By bennette

    Okay, so I'm fascinated with these YouTubes right now but let me assess this parenting fail and you guys tell me how I did, okay? I know it's not a tantrum but I don't have a YouTube for tantrum.

    (1) Do not attempt logic with a two-year old in an effort to end cookie terrorism

    (2) Do not extend the cookie conversation; instead offer limited alternatives ("You can have a cup of water or we can read a story; which one would you like?").

    (3) DO NOT GIVE THE KID A COOKIE!!

  21. By MammaSilva

    For someone who isn't the parent of a toddler you nailed it E! Once you say NO that's it, it has to be NO. If you even think you'll give the child 'one more' then just give them the last cookie and say ok this is the last cookie, but if you said NO more cookies, it's the end of that convo and time to move on to other topics. Offering alternatives is a good choice but whatever you do, do NOT cave and give them that cookie you've said no to.

  22. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by bennette View Post
    Okay, so I'm fascinated with these YouTubes right now but let me assess this parenting fail and you guys tell me how I did, okay? I know it's not a tantrum but I don't have a YouTube for tantrum.

    (1) Do not attempt logic with a two-year old in an effort to end cookie terrorism

    (2) Do not extend the cookie conversation; instead offer limited alternatives ("You can have a cup of water or we can read a story; which one would you like?").

    (3) DO NOT GIVE THE KID A COOKIE!!

    My only change would have been in #2.

    (2) Do not extend the cookie conversation; instead offer limited alternatives ("Do you want to sit in timeout or would you like to go play with your dolls/cars?").

  23. By bennette

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    My only change would have been in #2.

    (2) Do not extend the cookie conversation; instead offer limited alternatives ("Do you want to sit in timeout or would you like to go play with your dolls/cars?").


    LOL! Okay I'm obviously still in training.

  24. By bennette

    Everything I need to know, I learned on MousePlanet.

  25. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by bennette View Post
    Everything I need to know, I learned on MousePlanet.

    Just remember, I'm the mean mom.

  26. By dsnyredhead

    Quote Originally Posted by bennette View Post
    Everything I need to know, I learned on MousePlanet.

    Are you sure you only want to rely on us Mouseplanet Moms for information? LOL

  27. By dsnyredhead

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    Just remember, I'm the mean mom.

    Andy was calling me the "Mean Mom" at 2...he's nine now and still does...lol

  28. By 3Princesses1Prince

    Quote Originally Posted by bennette View Post
    Everything I need to know, I learned on MousePlanet.

    Exactly! I had to explain to my mom things like "doors are a privilege" when I said something about my older girls finally getting their bedroom door back.

  29. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Princesses1Prince View Post
    Exactly! I had to explain to my mom things like "doors are a privilege" when I said something about my older girls finally getting their bedroom door back.

    You know, if it gets bad enough, you go to minimum requirements. You need to provide them a bed, clean clothes (a pair of jeans and plain white tee shirt meet this requirement), and food (PB and J or bologna sandwiches meet this requirement.) If behavior declines, then so does the provisions provided.

    Now, while we talk about discipline, the other side of the coin is once sentence has been served, and behavior is changed, as adults, we need to get past it. (Something my ex couldn't do.)

    For example, a couple years ago, we were at Disneyland with Adk. We had my nieces. It was the first ride of the day, California Screamin'. Adk and I were sitting off while the kids rode. It was the younger nieces first time riding. Her sister was teasing her about being afraid. She reacted by kicking at the other kids. Next thing I knew, here comes Youngest with niece 2 in tow. Dropped her with me saying "She's in trouble" and she headed back to the line. I asked niece what happened and she explained "They were teasing me telling me I was going to be scared and they made me mad." I asked her what she should have done. "Tell MDM." Are you going to do that next time? Yes. Then I had her sit down facing away from myself and Adk while we waited for the others. When they came off the ride, she apologized, and it was over and we headed to the next ride. No holding it over her for the rest of the day or trip. Its done, sentence served, move on.

  30. By dsnyredhead

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    Now, while we talk about discipline, the other side of the coin is once sentence has been served, and behavior is changed, as adults, we need to get past it. (Something my ex couldn't do.)
    she apologized, and it was over and we headed to the next ride. No holding it over her for the rest of the day or trip. Its done, sentence served, move on.

    Ugh, I so totally agree. Arg broke a rule last year at school. It was something he reacted to and badly. The principal came down on him pretty hard. During the discussion of how we "should punish him" I actually originally agreed to 3 days at home with no computer time. I felt pressured into it by the principal and my son's primary aide in the classroom. We typically don't do punishments that last overnight. We have always felt that the next day was a "New day and a fresh start". There is no reason to carry punishments over several days...especially with an autistic child who isn't going to understand why they are being punished for so long. In our case, he will simply find other things to amuse him and it actually becomes a "he simply doesn't care about the punishment anymore" if it is too long. After one day of this No Computer time, I dropped it. I told the school, it wasn't up to them to tell me how to discipline my child at home and that three days wasn't going to do a thing with an aspie. Move on! ...and I know that sounds like I caved. Well, I guess I did, but I made the decision that was best for us. Every child is different

  31. By rph13

    Quote Originally Posted by mckat View Post
    One of my wisest moments as a Mom was actually just dumb luck (like many of my best moments). I realized, I too "misbehave". I found myself one of our first trips getting really angry and frustrated. It was for a good reason (daughter would not stay with the group). But definitely caused a bad attitude on my part. Since then, I've tried when at Disney to live by the mantra- it's all about your attitude. (generally true, but I do a better job at disney). So I have over the years enlisted my kids and we all keep an eye on each other, watching for each others attitude slipping into grumpy areas. Then we have a kind or funny way to remind each other. Like "Hey we are Disney". Or my son just gives me that knowing smile and says he loves me. I usually then take a deep breath, smile and apologize- or just wink. I of course keep an eye on them too. But the knowledge that we all have trouble doing the right thing, and it isn't just about punishment (I also parent my kids behavior as a Mom as well) but sometimes about helping each other be the best. As I said, it really was just a small idea. But I think it has helped them see I parent because it is an important job, and they see I try to change too.

    Our family has also finally learned this! We don't do well when we are hungry, tired or hot and have started to learn how to recognize the signs of these things in each other and someone will then suggest its time for a snack, rest etc. of course it helps now that the kids are 16 and 19! Wish we knew this when they were 2 and 5 but we learned other things or did other things thru those years.

  32. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by dsnyredhead View Post
    t three days wasn't going to do a thing with an aspie. Move on! ...and I know that sounds like I caved. Well, I guess I did, but I made the decision that was best for us. Every child is different

    Yes, but we often did longer term consequences. But when I say "No holding over", I mean once the punishment is over, not the day. We would do "No electronics" for a week, which meant no computers/ipods/Gameboys/X Box, etc... And autistics can relate days later. When my kids would ask "Can I have my Gameboy back?" it was an easy conversation to go back to "Remember how you argued with me over the limits on how long you could use the computer, and you aren't allowed to use the Game Boy til next Tuesday? If you hadn't argued with me, you could have had it. Now, you can get a book or go outside and play." But you have to be willing to stick to the consequences.

  33. By *Nala*

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    If the child is throwing a fit, and are given the candy bar, what will happen in the future? They are being set up for failure.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammaSilva View Post
    The bottom line in parenting is being consistent and being willing to put in the work. Watching another mom do a basket hold on her toddler in the middle of target comes to mind. You do have to pick your battles but don't lose when you do.

    I agree with all of this, and my kids definitely don't get candy when they pitch a fit. Treats and special privileges go away when they are in tantrum mode, and they know it. When the 3 year old calms down and I ask him "why didn't you get to <bring a toy in the car, have a sticker, pick a treat>" he knows the reason and will answer. On the other hand, in the Trader Joes example I mentioned, he was behaving alright and asked if he could pick out some fruit. I said "after I finish getting my salads." I look up and he is over at the fruit and has a thing of grapes in his arms. I told him to put it down and listen and come back by me. He did, but started crying. I finished getting my salads and we had a talk about screaming for things. Then I asked him "How do you get things." He said "May I please have some grapes?" So I let him get them. Fresh fruit, something that isn't bad for him, he calmed down quickly and did it right. I would NOT have let him do that if he had continued in tantrum mode.

    However it's possible someone may have seen him screaming and then later saw him end up with the grapes, and then complained to somebody about "that horrible mother who let her kid run wild all over Trader Joes and scream for grapes." It's so easy to make a judgment based on a 1 or 2 or 10 minute snapshot of someone's life, and we all do it, but I do my best not to do it with other parents. Parenting is awesome and rewarding and I wouldn't trade my kids for anything, but it is easily the most exhausting thing I have ever done. I am far from a perfect mother but I do my best and I like to think most parents do too, and if I see the kid or parent at their worst it isn't always how they are.

  34. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by *Nala* View Post
    It's so easy to make a judgment based on a 1 or 2 or 10 minute snapshot of someone's life, and we all do it, but I do my best not to do it with other parents.

    I do agree. It is hard. AND there are more good parents than bad. And your scenario works out, it was a learning experience. I've done similar things too. Back up, repeat the situation how the child should have acted, then reward the proper behavior. I've even replayed it where even after asking properly, I've said no because it wasn't on my list/I had other fruits I wanted/price was too high/any other reason I said no. But I've also watched things from start to finish, where the candy bar/grapes/toy are used simply to shut the child up.

    It is too bad the poor parenting stands out more. When we are dining at Pizza Port, and you have other people's children under your table, while mom and dad are busy talking with friends, it is hard to look around and spot all the children behaving properly. And the excuse is often "It's Disneyland, you have to expect the kids to be running around." But other children are sitting appropriately.

    I will never forget the mom who allowed her child to stand on a restaurant bench/table to play with a light over the table with the excuse "He's just a kid."

  35. By MammaSilva

    I think that one of the most difficult parts of parenting in public is that 'worry' about what others might be thinking about you and your child. One of my favorite people has her 3 trained ... too bad for you that your mom doesn't embarrass in public easily as she applies whatever discipline is appropriate at the moment. The trader Joe story is perfect, he 'turned it around' and because he did he got his request, but you had a plan in place in the event he continued to tantrum. Sounds like you've got things under control. Kids will test, that's their job, it's ours to define the lines of what is and isn't ok and then be so consistent that they figure it out too.

  36. By adriennek

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    We would do "No electronics" for a week, which meant no computers/ipods/Gameboys/X Box, etc... And autistics can relate days later. When my kids would ask "Can I have my Gameboy back?" it was an easy conversation to go back to "Remember how you argued with me over the limits on how long you could use the computer, and you aren't allowed to use the Game Boy til next Tuesday? If you hadn't argued with me, you could have had it. Now, you can get a book or go outside and play." But you have to be willing to stick to the consequences.
    I think for my "complicated" child, the longer consequences work better. No electronics for one day? That's one thing. Ground him for multiple days? That sends a message. "How does it feel to want, kiddo? Maybe you should remember this next time you make that choice..." And, yes, I'm the meanest mom on Earth and completely unreasonable and my system is "Stupid." There's consequences for that, too, by the way. I've learned to issue those after he's calmed down.

    I was blessed to find an expert medical group that specialized in Gifted/ADHD/Spectrum/All of the Above/Some of the Above/Alphabet Soup kids. They literally handed me a handbook and said 'Do this.' We now have a great structure in place. Oh, you broke a rule, here's your consequence, you're grounded until it's over. And yep, some of them take a couple of days to get through. But when they're done with their consequences, THEN I let it go. And it's not done until it's done. "Did you finish your cards? Well then, no, you can't play on the computer until you finish your cards."

    I've had parents say to me "What does that mean?" and my kids say to their kids "DON'T LET YOUR PARENTS GET THE CARDS!!!" Yeah, they put up a fuss but ultimately, they know that our system is structured, clear, and it makes me and Doc a lot more consistent. (Clear, structured and consistent? I don't care what alphabet soup a kid has, every kid does well with that!! My less complicated kids do as well as my alphabet soup kid.) It took a LOT of work to get it going. A lot. But a few years later, it's been so worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    I will never forget the mom who allowed her child to stand on a restaurant bench/table to play with a light over the table with the excuse "He's just a kid."

    For me it was the mom in Target whose child fell asleep holding a toy. When she was at the check out stand, she took the toy away. The child woke up crying for the toy. So she took it back off the shelf and gave it back to him. My eyes must've bulged out. She looked at me and said "Anything to buy myself some peace, right?" I thought "Honey, you just sold out your peace for a LONG time." I can't imagine how many times she'd have to say "no" to get this kid to forget the one time she said yes.

  37. By currence

    For us, at Disneyland, we go too often to loosen the behavior strings. My kids know what is expected and what will happen if they don't behave. I am guilty of having to remind kids too often what is expected of them, but we will carry through with threats if behavior does not improve and the number of friendly reminders they get is inversely proportionate to the behavior and it's impact on either safety or the enjoyment of others.

    At Disneyland we have a general "one foot on the ground at all times" rule. This prevents them from climbing on things they are not supposed to climb on or sitting on things (i.e. queue railings/poles) that they are not supposed to sit on. A child who is otherwise behaving will get many, many reminders of this rule if needed. A child who is otherwise misbehaving will get an immediate consequence. This family rule is especially hard since my kids are at the age where they can see that other kids are misbehaving and getting away with it.

    We just got back from (a non-Disney) vacation and there we did relax the house rules a bit because we were on vacation (but never so relaxed that it should negatively impact other people). One day we were swimming in the hotel pool and my oldest thought it was great fun to jump into the pool, which was only 3-4' deep. After being told that he could not do this (it splashed water outside of the pool and was a potential safety hazard) the next time he "forgot" he had a brief time out and then practiced how to properly get into a pool that doesn't have steps about 10 times before he was allowed back in. The next time he forgot he was out of the pool for good.

    The other memorable part of our trip relative to this thread was a time when my son was sobbing because his misbehavior had resulted in a time-out which resulted in his not getting to go on all of the playground equipment at a neighborhood park and my unwisely telling him that we were not going to return to that park on this trip. I let him cry for a while but when he showed no sign of stopping I turned to my mom and asked her if she wanted a mint. She probably didn't but she played along and said yes and I asked my husband to get them out. Mints were passed all around including to my son who knew from past experience that he would have to calm down if he wanted one (plus it's really hard to cry when you are sucking on a mint). He calmed down, got the mint, and was fine thereafter. I would never beg my kid to calm down and offer them a mint (or anything else) as a bribe to get them to do so. But I have no problem offering other people a treat and letting him know he can have one "once he is ready." I know on the one hand it is "just" semantics since at the the end you have a kid with a treat, but I'm inclined to believe that in the real world there is a huge difference since as people above have said, rewarding a kid for having a tantrum only encourages more of them, whereas rewarding a kid for good behavior hopefully encourages more of that instead.

  38. By currence

    Quote Originally Posted by adriennek View Post
    For me it was the mom in Target whose child fell asleep holding a toy. When she was at the check out stand, she took the toy away. The child woke up crying for the toy. So she took it back off the shelf and gave it back to him. My eyes must've bulged out. She looked at me and said "Anything to buy myself some peace, right?" I thought "Honey, you just sold out your peace for a LONG time." I can't imagine how many times she'd have to say "no" to get this kid to forget the one time she said yes.

    I've been "that" mom at Target with their (around) $2 giant balls. My daughter really wanted (another) one and she was generally behaving so I let her have it. She carried it all around the store and, since it was almost as big as she is, and she was trying to bounce it in the store, it rolled away fairly frequently. I pegged her behavior at "mildly disruptive" as she did have to chase it down as it rolled past other shoppers. She was happy enough to have it, chased it quietly, and it did let me shop in relative peace. But I did do the sheepish grin with the "it's worth it to keep her happy" comment to a few other shoppers. Hopefully no one was too upset with my parenting choices that day.

    I have been known to laugh at my kids when they tantrum over wanting something and ask them "has that ever actually worked in this house?"

  39. By *Nala*

    Quote Originally Posted by currence View Post
    At Disneyland we have a general "one foot on the ground at all times" rule. This prevents them from climbing on things they are not supposed to climb on or sitting on things (i.e. queue railings/poles) that they are not supposed to sit on. A child who is otherwise behaving will get many, many reminders of this rule if needed. A child who is otherwise misbehaving will get an immediate consequence. This family rule is especially hard since my kids are at the age where they can see that other kids are misbehaving and getting away with it.

    Love this and I think I will steal it for our next trip! And we also go to Disneyland way too often to have different rules there. We don't do a ton of sugary snacks and the kids still need to take their naps. The 3 year old knows "If I nap in the stroller, I will wake up at Disneyland."

  40. By dsnyredhead

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    I will never forget the mom who allowed her child to stand on a restaurant bench/table to play with a light over the table with the excuse "He's just a kid."

    I think my kid did that once as a toddler...I quickly grabbed him and sat him back down with a stern no.

  41. By dsnyredhead

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    Yes, but we often did longer term consequences.

    I think what got to me most about the situation last year with my son was that he misbehaved at school and school was trying to dictate to me how to punish my son at home for something that happened at school. They totally treated me like I did not know to penalize my son and could not do it without their intervention.

  42. By bumblebeeonarose

    Your stories make me feel better. Just tell me there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I don't like age 3 right now. Tantrum's are funny though. I really don't understand why my daughter will cry about wanting something (not for things at a store, she's actually not done that yet). We don't give in, but she still throws tantrums when she doesn't get her way.

    She is one of those that often finds punishments funny. This started at a very young age. Just before turning one she would hit me and laugh. We began putting her in timeout, but when the timeout was over she would get out and hit me again and laugh. I had to come up with a different solution to that problem. I can always tell now when she doesn't feel the least bit sorry for her misbehavior because she'll go to timeout content, sometimes laughing or being goofy. Generally if she goes to timeout crying then I know she's feeling some remorse for her behavior.

  43. By dsnyredhead

    Quote Originally Posted by bumblebeeonarose View Post
    She is one of those that often finds punishments funny. This started at a very young age. Just before turning one she would hit me and laugh. We began putting her in timeout, but when the timeout was over she would get out and hit me again and laugh.

    My son often laughs in the face of punishment...then when he decides we are serious about the punishment, then he goes into tantrum mode over it. We don't let him get away with stuff and usually as the arguing continues...he loses more and more. Stop at Point A, you could have only lost this...Stop at Point C....now you've added this and this to your punishment. He doesn't know when in it best to stop which we are trying to teach him.

  44. By codewoman

    When my youngest was three he slammed his bedroom door. I immediately and calmly retrieved a screwdriver, pulled the pins from the door, and removed the door (leaned it up against the wall in the hallway). His response was "Fine! I don't need a door." I was worried that this might not be as effective as it could be. However, a couple days later, he came to me with his sweet face on asking, "How can I get my door back?" A sigh of relief. We had him earn his door again.

    He's only slammed his door a few times since (he's now 13) and always on accident. Each time it was followed by a prompt apology.

    At one point my oldest son was being disciplined for sneaking out at night. One of the privileges we took away was his bedroom door. That was very effective. I had the son of a friend tell me he was not allowed to close his bedroom door -- ever. He said he did one time and his father put a fist through it.

    Children need privacy for changing clothes, bathing and using the bathroom. None of those require a bedroom door.

  45. By Malcon10t

    When mine slammed the door, I removed the door knob. A week later when he was angry that the door wouldn't slam, he went and pushed it so it made the slamming noise. That got the pins removed. (Which also resulted in my losing the pins, so he was without a door for about 2-3 years.)

    When Escape Artist was about 12, he lost computer privs for a week. I put his computer in my room. He took it, which earned him an additional week, and I put it in my room. He took it again. This earned him 2 more weeks and all other electronics. They stop laughing when the punishments get serious enough.

  46. By bumblebeeonarose

    My aunt took her daughter's door away once too.

    How severe can a punishment be at three though... There are not too many things she really cares about, she's not attached to much. She wouldn't care if I took her toys, except the one she sleeps with. And I read never take that away because it is their comfort. We usually take the TV away because that is something she does like. However, that sometimes leads to more naughty behavior as she now doesn't have a movie to distract her. The other thing we use is a baby gate. We'll put it up if she won't stay in bed at night. She can actually take it down, but for some reason she only takes it down in the morning. It is like she knows that once it's up she's lost and must go to bed. She's not old enough for other electronics, so I really don't have much to take away.

  47. By cstephens

    Quote Originally Posted by bumblebeeonarose View Post
    She's not old enough for other electronics, so I really don't have much to take away.

    How about favorite foods? As Malcon10t has said before, the kids need to be fed, but there's nothing that says they need to be fed their favorite foods or anything fancy. Any kinds of sweets, dessert, candy, etc. can be taken away as well. I think it comes down to what Malcon10t said about knowing what currency is important to your child.

  48. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by bumblebeeonarose View Post
    There are not too many things she really cares about, she's not attached to much.

    I took ME away. Time out meant they got none of my attention. Even returning them to timeout was silent. Separation from the pack. That would bother them more than anything else.

  49. By dsnyredhead

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    I took ME away. Time out meant they got none of my attention. Even returning them to timeout was silent. Separation from the pack. That would bother them more than anything else.

    This is one technique that does tend to work pretty well with our son. I've also used the "would you like me to call one of our relatives (even dad, but Aunt or grandparent works best) and tell them all about what you did". I will say it takes alot to get me to drop to "I'll call anyone other than your dad"....and dad hears just about everything so that's not really a big deal to him.

  50. By josephfive

    Quote Originally Posted by bumblebeeonarose View Post
    My aunt took her daughter's door away once too.

    How severe can a punishment be at three though... There are not too many things she really cares about, she's not attached to much. She wouldn't care if I took her toys, except the one she sleeps with. And I read never take that away because it is their comfort. We usually take the TV away because that is something she does like. However, that sometimes leads to more naughty behavior as she now doesn't have a movie to distract her. The other thing we use is a baby gate. We'll put it up if she won't stay in bed at night. She can actually take it down, but for some reason she only takes it down in the morning. It is like she knows that once it's up she's lost and must go to bed. She's not old enough for other electronics, so I really don't have much to take away.

    In my opinion, time outs are very effective for toddlers. They just need to be done immediately. And then I would add that you reinforce the behavior that got her in a timeout, ask her to apologize and then follow up with a hug. And like Malcon10t said, the removal from your time and attention is very effective.

  51. By currence

    Quote Originally Posted by dsnyredhead View Post
    I think my kid did that once as a toddler...I quickly grabbed him and sat him back down with a stern no.

    My MIL let my kids misbehave at a restaurant once while I was in the bathroom. I came back and quickly put a stop to the behavior. Her defense was that he was "so cute" doing whatever it was he was doing (I think it was practicing walking/toddling around the store and not staying in his seat. In her defense it was highly adorable). I looked at her and asked "Will it still be cute when he is 13?" I don't understand how (certain) people can think their precious children should be allowed to do whatever they want when they are little without it affecting what they are like when they grow up.

    Regarding behavior at school turning into consequences at home, I do think that it is important for kids to understand that school and home are on the same page. My kids know that misbehavior at school equals negative consequences at home. Last year, the consequence was "no electronics" (i.e. no tv, computer, tablets, radio, games on cellphones, or toys that use batteries). But that was something my child and I developed together, with me throwing out a number of possible consequences and latching on to the one that he reacted to least favorably. Extra good behavior at school also earned them positive consequences at home (usually us saying yes to special food requests). But I think I would have been upset too if the school had told me what the consequence should be.

  52. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by currence View Post
    I don't understand how (certain) people can think their precious children should be allowed to do whatever they want when they are little without it affecting what they are like when they grow up.

    My son, Heir, allowed Heiress to stand on the bench seat at Red Robin at dinner one evening several months ago, looking into the next booth. I "suggested" she sit down. He commented that there wasn't anyone there that she was bothering. I explained she is too young to make that connection next time, she will just know you allowed it, why are you making different rules... He had her sit down, but for a couple minutes, I felt like I was being a mean grandma. He has since come to understand.

  53. By dsnyredhead

    Quote Originally Posted by currence View Post
    But that was something my child and I developed together, with me throwing out a number of possible consequences and latching on to the one that he reacted to least favorably. Extra good behavior at school also earned them positive consequences at home (usually us saying yes to special food requests). But I think I would have been upset too if the school had told me what the consequence should be.

    That was my whole issue. They were telling me what the consequences should be at home even after he had already sat in the principal's office for part of the day. It seemed like they were adding to the punishment even though he had already been punished. They have asked me at iep meetings 'how I discipline him' and while I agree that they are trying to find out what works..I do not feel that school should tell me what the consequences should be at home.

  54. By skimbob

    I am a single adult with no children. I travel to WDW and Disneyland both and I applaud parents who discipline their children. When kids misbehave it ruins the enjoyment of all those around them. The excuse that it is Disney does not fly with me. Children should be respectful no matter what. I have taken many of the kids in our family to different parks and I have my rules as well. If the kids do not follow my rules they know they will not be invited again.

    The thing I get annoyed at is adults who act worse than kids and set a poor example for kids who see them. I have watched adults for example kick the walls in the Pirate que. When I see things like this I am outraged. That is a sign of total disrespect for others property. If I was big and scary I would have a talk with adults that misbehave. I also do not allow other people's children to do whatever. On a recent trip to Six Flags these kids ran in front of us to get on a ride. They had friends that were behind us in between other family that was with us that they cut in front of. When the friends reached us and wanted by us I told them go ahead because your friends were already rude by cutting in line in the first place. They knew I was mad and apologized. My cousins that were with me were pleased that I said something because they knew if they did that there would be trouble.

  55. By codewoman

    Skimbob, I usually make the line cutters go back to be with their friends. Otherwise, they'll just have to be separated.

  56. By cstephens

    Quote Originally Posted by currence View Post
    But I think I would have been upset too if the school had told me what the consequence should be.

    I have never been a teacher, nor a parent, so I have zero qualifications in those arenas, but I'm butting in anyway.

    I guess I don't see that as being the school telling the parent what to do. If there's a problem at school, I certainly agree with you that the child needs to understand that there are consequences to be dealt with both at school and at home, and the two should be in conjunction. I could see where the school might be inclined to levy something more punitive if they didn't feel the child was going to get the adequate consequences at home, or they might not be quite as harsh if they knew the child was serving most of his/her consequences at home. So, if the school feels that they had an agreement with the parent regarding what consequences would be done at school and what would be done at home, and then all of a sudden the parent unilaterally decides not to keep up the home portion, I could see where the school now would feel that the child got off easy because he/she didn't have to deal with full consequences. At least if the parent was up front about what the home consequences were going to be, the school could then take that information and make their own decision about what the school consequences would be.

    And of course, by "school", I don't mean the physical building, but whomever the staff/personnel would be who would be dealing with this sort of thing.


    And, as far as behaviour at the parks, I rarely blame the child for any "bad" behaviour, unless the child is old enough, and even then, if they haven't been taught, it's not their fault. It's when the parent does nothing to try to stop and/or correct that behaviour or has the wrong expectactions of the child that it makes me somewhat annoyed.

  57. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by cstephens View Post
    So, if the school feels that they had an agreement with the parent regarding what consequences would be done at school and what would be done at home, and then all of a sudden the parent unilaterally decides not to keep up the home portion, I could see where the school now would feel that the child got off easy because he/she didn't have to deal with full consequences.

    I usually worked with the school to enforce punishments. We also rewarded good behavior at school for the one who had issues at school. There was only one incident at school I refused to enforce any punishment at home, but that was as a teen for something I truly felt was unfair, not just for my child, but for another one also. Again, this was in HS. Through out elementary and middle, the school and I worked together. And I did work with the school psychologist for behavior mods my children needed. School really needs to be team work. While we only have a "few" kids (I have 4), teachers and staff see 5 times that, and often have more ideas than what we see.

  58. By Mermaid

    This has been really interesting and helpful to read. My kids are almost 3 and 17 months. My older one is not a tantrumer, but a fit-er. Like he gets angry but it is fairly short lived and not too traumatic on anyone. We use time outs with him which are fairly effective, usually this is for not following directions or speaking one too many times to Mommy in "that" tone. I feel like they have gotten more effective in the last 6 months or so- as in he cares more. Before that, he didn't really care much and would get up a million times. But after returning to time out a million times, he started to "get it." I just put my daughter in her first mini-time out today for throwing a roll of duct tape at her brother's head- and she aimed well. She is gonna test every parenting skill I have- I am pretty sure. She is a tantrumer and a thrower and a stomper. Right now, it is kind of hard not to laugh.... but we have maintained composure so far!

    I should ask you all, our issue that has cropped up lately is fighting over the same toy. Generally it goes like this, K- playing nicely with something. M- "Hey, I have not looked at that toy in 3 months but it is my favorite toy ever and I want to play with it NOW!!!!" Mom- "M, K is playing with that. You can have your turn when she is done." M- "I had it FIRST!!!!!" grabs it from her, she screams and cries, M goes to time out only to have the situation play out again 10 minutes later. It is driving me insane!! Sometimes, K is the instigator of the toy stealing, but not usually and she is still redirected easily to something else.

  59. By dsnyredhead

    In the situation where school wanted to have him punished at home, I also talked directly with the aide who actually had the incident. She told me a very different story of what happened and that changed our opinion of what the punishment should be. It was clear that he reacted to something that he simply could not understand at that time. Thus our view of how the school wanted him punished did not fit the incident.

  60. By adriennek

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    I usually worked with the school to enforce punishments. We also rewarded good behavior at school for the one who had issues at school. There was only one incident at school I refused to enforce any punishment at home, but that was as a teen for something I truly felt was unfair, not just for my child, but for another one also. Again, this was in HS. Through out elementary and middle, the school and I worked together. And I did work with the school psychologist for behavior mods my children needed. School really needs to be team work. While we only have a "few" kids (I have 4), teachers and staff see 5 times that, and often have more ideas than what we see.
    I've actually had the school tell me: You don't need to do anything at home, we took care of it here and we consider it over. They knew/know that if they involve me, we're going to follow up at home. Sometimes they just want to inform me. I had to have a conversation with one teacher that went something like "Ok, if I get a written note, THEN I should follow up at home. If you're telling me something verbally, you consider it already addressed, is that what you're saying?" The same teacher told me "I know you have a very structured system at home and I appreciate that you'll follow through." This was the second time I "had" her. She was one of my favorites. It really has to be a cooperative team effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mermaid View Post
    But after returning to time out a million times, he started to "get it."

    SNIP TO

    I should ask you all, our issue that has cropped up lately is fighting over the same toy. Generally it goes like this, K- playing nicely with something. M- "Hey, I have not looked at that toy in 3 months but it is my favorite toy ever and I want to play with it NOW!!!!" Mom- "M, K is playing with that. You can have your turn when she is done." M- "I had it FIRST!!!!!" grabs it from her, she screams and cries, M goes to time out only to have the situation play out again 10 minutes later. It is driving me insane!! Sometimes, K is the instigator of the toy stealing, but not usually and she is still redirected easily to something else.

    I think you answered your own question! After losing the toy he grabbed from K, about a million times, he'll start to get it.

    I started to post a reply earlier but I got distracted. The "Removing me" part is what's critical, IMO, and also, sometimes the hardest. (See: Mermaid trying not to laugh at K and going insane with M.) I TOTALLY get it. When my kids are pushing my buttons, they try to engage me. And there was a time it worked. As I practiced more, I started to catch myself and reminded myself "Don't engage. That's what he wants."

    So I have to try hard to remember, sometimes: Don't laugh. Don't get mad and take the bait and escalate. Don't reward the behavior with a response. Don't get dragged down to his level.

    Stay calm. Give the consequence. If the child is reacting, give him time to calm down before escalating the consequence. I've been known to sit down with a child much later after he calmed down and say: Ok, I'm glad you calmed down, now, but I do have to add to your consequence because you did not calm down before.

    And I almost went insane. And I had to do it a million times. And I probably annoyed some of my friends by privately venting to them or going to them and saying "Ok, tell me I'm doing the right thing" for the millionth time.

  61. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by Mermaid View Post
    Generally it goes like this, K- playing nicely with something. M- "Hey, I have not looked at that toy in 3 months but it is my favorite toy ever and I want to play with it NOW!!!!" Mom- "M, K is playing with that. You can have your turn when she is done." M- "I had it FIRST!!!!!" grabs it from her, she screams and cries, M goes to time out only to have the situation play out again 10 minutes later. It is driving me insane!! Sometimes, K is the instigator of the toy stealing, but not usually and she is still redirected easily to something else.

    Do you want an idea? Here is what *I* would do. He is old enough to understand now. Make a hard and fast rule that if he steals a toy from K, he cannot play with that toy today. (M, from now on, if you take a toy from K, you will get time out, and you cannot play with that toy today. If K takes a toy from you, come tell me, and I will get it back for you.) He takes it from her, you take it back, give it back to her, tell him no more toy that day. He gets time out. He takes it back again, same thing, reminding him he cannot have it period today, even if she isn't playing with it. If he doesn't stop taking the toy, escalate to removing not just the toy he took, but the toy he had been playing with before for the day. (If you take the Pluto from K again, I will also have to put up your truck for today.)

  62. By adriennek

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    Do you want an idea? Here is what *I* would do. He is old enough to understand now. Make a hard and fast rule that if he steals a toy from K, he cannot play with that toy today. (M, from now on, if you take a toy from K, you will get time out, and you cannot play with that toy today. If K takes a toy from you, come tell me, and I will get it back for you.) He takes it from her, you take it back, give it back to her, tell him no more toy that day. He gets time out. He takes it back again, same thing, reminding him he cannot have it period today, even if she isn't playing with it. If he doesn't stop taking the toy, escalate to removing not just the toy he took, but the toy he had been playing with before for the day. (If you take the Pluto from K again, I will also have to put up your truck for today.)

    We got a tool box and a lock. In our case, by the time we got it, the boys were old enough that we actually wrote on it "DS Jail." It was for their Nintendo DSs (obviously) but it's big enough to hold iPods and Wii-remotes, too. (Not big enough for the iPad that eldest bought for himself so we have to have a hiding spot for that.)

  63. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by adriennek View Post
    We got a tool box and a lock. In our case, by the time we got it, the boys were old enough that we actually wrote on it "DS Jail." It was for their Nintendo DSs (obviously) but it's big enough to hold iPods and Wii-remotes, too. (Not big enough for the iPad that eldest bought for himself so we have to have a hiding spot for that.)

    I was assuming it was OK for K to have, but just restricting M from having. But as the kids get older, the tool box is a great idea.

    And like you, I don't care if the child has purchased the item themselves, under my roof, under my rules....

  64. By Mermaid

    Yes, generally K is playing nicely with it (before the standoff ensues) if it is a toy they both are being crazy over- it gets put on top of the fridge until after naps or the next day depending on when it happened- but that has only happened a handful of times. I am sure as K gets older- it will get much worse before it gets better!

    I like Mal's rule- in fact I told DH today I was instituting it. But amazingly, no toy fights today. I was struggling to teach Matthew that if he waits a bit, she will be done and he can have the coveted "I have not ever played with you, but now you must be mine" toy. But, that's not really working- the taking it from him for the day I think will be more immediate and concrete. My plan is to wait until she is done and then just put it up. This should work for now since she isn't super attached to anything and wouldn't miss anything for a day. He often does ask her nicely if he can have it and then complains that she's not sharing (and then either fits or grabs it), which is funny but exasperating! He uses the good behavior of asking nicely, but gets super upset when it doesn't have the desired outcome. Just because you asked nicely, does not mean she has to give it to you. And we do have a rule that unless she is invited, K is not allowed to play with M's trains- those are his toys alone. K doesn't have anything that qualifies for that yet, but will soon enough, I'm sure.

  65. By dsnyredhead

    Quote Originally Posted by cstephens View Post

    I guess I don't see that as being the school telling the parent what to do.

    The school told me, "we need to deal with it this way, this is what we want you to do". So yes, the school did tell me "what to do." That is where I had a big problem with it. After hearing directly from the adult involved who was there, my opinion changed.

  66. By adriennek

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    I was assuming it was OK for K to have, but just restricting M from having. But as the kids get older, the tool box is a great idea.

    And like you, I don't care if the child has purchased the item themselves, under my roof, under my rules....

    Agreed with Mermaid's K & M.

    And yep - most of the hand-held electronics were bought with their own money. Those that have passcodes, WE know the passcodes for. They have to come to us to unlock their codes in order to use them. My M figured out he could still listen to music on his iPad when it was passlocked, so now when he loses it, he LOSES it. DS's didn't have passcode locks so we had to confiscate them.

  67. By currence

    When toys are creating issues in our house we have been known to give "Toy time outs." Pretty similar to kid time outs but they tend to last a lot longer and the toys don't have to talk about what happened or give me a hug to get out. They tend to be used when a toy is causing issues that are annoying me (not sharing, being dropped on the ground, etc) but the behavior may not have escalated to a person time out. They are especially helpful when the little person alleges that they "can't help it." Often threatening the toy time out is enough to stop the bad behavior. ("If your [favorite stuffed animal] can't stay in your hands, he might need to go into time-out for a little while to think about why being dropped isn't such a good idea").

    For us, for now, toy time outs are not done to punish the child. We have also been known to take toys away as punishment, but that is different than the toy time out.

    I like the idea of DS Jail! I will have to mentally file that one away for when the day comes I need to use it!

  68. By cstephens

    Quote Originally Posted by currence View Post
    They are especially helpful when the little person alleges that they "can't help it." Often threatening the toy time out is enough to stop the bad behavior. ("If your [favorite stuffed animal] can't stay in your hands, he might need to go into time-out for a little while to think about why being dropped isn't such a good idea").

    I like that!

  69. By GusMan

    Quote Originally Posted by adriennek View Post
    We got a tool box and a lock. <SNIP> (Not big enough for the iPad that eldest bought for himself so we have to have a hiding spot for that.)

    Sounds like an excuse to buy a new tool box... and more tools.
    <Insert Tim Allen grunt here.>

  70. By bumblebeeonarose

    Quote Originally Posted by currence View Post
    When toys are creating issues in our house we have been known to give "Toy time outs."

    We have done this. I think sometimes it is more effective than a time out for DD. She doesn't like the idea of her Thomas train in timeout.

    We don't have problems with her stealing toys from her brother yet as he is too young. Though sometimes there is a problem with her giving him so many toys he is buried. I think part of our problems right now stem from the age, she has become very stubborn and many of my friends' kids are the same way right now. But I also think it was a lot of change at once. Baby brother was born (there's a big change) and so now I was home with her and she wasn't going to school. Then summer came, so I'm still off and my husband is doing an internship so he's gone all day. That is a big switch for her as she's used to him being home and me being gone.

    I work hard to stand my ground with her. It just isn't any fun when a fight over nap time takes hours. I won (locked her in her room with a bungee cord tied on hers and brother's door knobs), but it was a long battle. She's always taken naps without a problem, and still usually does. She was very tired too, but she didn't want to and was not relenting. She's the stubbornness little thing. Not sure where she got that from...

  71. By adriennek

    I need y'all to know, I used this thread yesterday. Yes, it was my own advice, but I'd FORGOTTEN my own best practices.

    We were at Disneyland at the time, too!

    My youngest was doing his pouting thing. It's not really tantrum level anymore, but when he's NOT happy, he lets EVERYONE know. I was with another Padder and we were talking about this thread, actually. I realized I hadn't taken away ME. I was feeding his pout!

    So I stopped. I just started ignoring him. I stopped trying to talk him out of the pout. I stopped trying to lecture him out of the pout. I just started to ignore him.

    Another thing I got from her that was fabulous - we had 5 boys between the two of us - and there was an argument as we were loading up the car to come home. J wanted to sit next to M, C wanted to sit with P, J wanted the back seat, M wanted the middle seat (S didn't care he just wanted it all to stop.) So other mom said "I'm going to count to TEN and if you all don't figure this out, I will." I'm totally down with the "if you don't figure this out, I will" but I've never added the counting thing to give them that guideline. As soon as they said it, J was a lot more into finding a compromise. She was clearly counting slow enough to give them time to get everyone moved around. By 4, the kids were saying "you can stop counting! We're doing it!!" and she did.

    This could totally work in so many situations at the parks, too.

    So I'm totally going to do that. I think I fix the problems WAY too often, in the interest of time. Now I have a tool to manage how long it takes them to fix the problem themselves. SCORE!

  72. By dsnyredhead

    Ignoring the pout works great with Arg too. The more we feed it, the more it grows. I simply tell him "when you are ready to speak to me in a clear voice, I will listen, the tantrum isn't going to work with me".

  73. By bumblebeeonarose

    The removing me seems to be working better than anything else, thanks for the tip. I put myself in "timeout" in my room. I tried this the other day when she was in timeout but kept opening my door (we use the stairs for timeout, and when we're upstairs it happens to be outside my room). I locked my door so she couldn't open it. And that was it. She hated it and threw a huge fit, which I didn't have to witness, and then finally calmed down. She realized she had lost and didn't have my attention. Did this again today and it worked again. Thanks again for the tip.

  74. By adriennek

    Quote Originally Posted by bumblebeeonarose View Post
    the removing me seems to be working better than anything else, thanks for the tip.

    yeah!!!

  75. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by adriennek View Post
    My youngest was doing his pouting thing. It's not really tantrum level anymore, but when he's NOT happy, he lets EVERYONE know. I was with another Padder and we were talking about this thread, actually. I realized I hadn't taken away ME. I was feeding his pout!

    So I stopped. I just started ignoring him. I stopped trying to talk him out of the pout. I stopped trying to lecture him out of the pout. I just started to ignore him.

    This is so hard. As adults, so often we have to have the last word or feel like we need to show we have the power. If you have to show it, you don't have it. AND it isn't always the right thing. The secret is to know when it is the right thing.

    Like I told my kids when they were little, our family is NOT a democracy. We are a dictatorship, and I *was* the dictator (that has changed....) That's not to say I won't take their ideas, thoughts, concerns, wants, needs, etc into consideration, but they weren't making the rules.

  76. By adriennek

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    This is so hard. As adults, so often we have to have the last word or feel like we need to show we have the power. If you have to show it, you don't have it. AND it isn't always the right thing. The secret is to know when it is the right thing.

    You know, it's REALLY funny you said that because the other day I was thinking it.

    I have the power. I know I have the power. Sometimes, I forget I have the power and I get sucked in and have to say something and then I feel lame. I'm proudest of when I keep my mouth shut. They know who has the control. They know who has the power. That's part of the reason they're not happy.

  77. By candles71

    I am so behind on this thread.
    Tantrums and removing yourself, my cousin was about 2, so I was 8ish, my mom babysat him. She had taken us to the park to play, but it was time to go. He threw himself down in the parking lot and had a tantrum. I was so shocked when my mom just calmly walked away. (Quiet parking lot and she was close enough if a car did come in.) It stuck vividly in my head. The first time I ever used this trick? Whistler's brother was 6, when we were dating, he started to throw a tantrum in Kmart, it so worked. This is what I used on the kids. One of them, would get up and follow me and throw themselves at my feet again. I never said a word, I just calmly walked away again.
    Fighting over a toy? G and B are 16 months apart, N and A are 3 years apart, with a 5 year gap between B and N. I just never wanted to figure out who had what and when, the toy got taken away and went into the tool jail (basket on top of a bookcase they couldn't reach). It worked very well with G and B, there were times with N and A, where one of them would start a fight to get the toy taken from the other. Which if it was clear, got the offending party in trouble.
    The nieces and nephews all know Auntie C and Uncle Whistler have much stricter rules than any of their homes. They all LOVE to spend time at Auntie and Uncles, so that says something. Our kids know if they break one of our rules (more the saftey rules) while at another home, they are still in trouble. Usually grounded from that cousin's home. One nephew climbed in my front passenger seat right after he turned 13 with the cutest kind of smug look on his face (his parents let the kids sit in the front with airbags), I knew what he was doing so I let the smug look slide, and just winked at him.

    Fit throwing. G was a fit thrower, she would get herself so worked up she couldn't calm herself down a few times. We resorted to placing her in the tub and pouring tepid (not cold, not hot) water over her head, careful that we weren't throwing it in her face. It was the only thing that worked when she got that upset. The last time she was about 4 1/2 and was mad at her bff for putting the coat that went on the Dwarves, so they could dance with Snow White, onto a Barbie. It didn't belong there. ETA: She was also my logic based child, if she had a why for a rule, she followed it to the letter. Hold mom's hand in the street, so not get run over, ok.

    ADK we count, with a stated consequence at the end. It usually works quite well, because the kids have to find a compromise that works, they also have to know that your compromise, they won't like.

    Disneyredhead, I see where you are coming from. Our school is very good about the discipline being at school, with a notification to the parent. If it is something that warrants additional discipline at home, they leave it to the parent. Usually, at least for us, it just needs additional dialog at home. Quite honesty, a good number of parents won't follow up at home, so I don't understand why they would dictate his home punishment.

  78. By bumblebeeonarose

    Read this article today and it made me think of this thread (and high school psychology class) http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...ment.html?pg=1

  79. By Malcon10t

    THANK YOU! Love the article. Especially this part: "Parents may behave differently in different settings, Bober said. A child can cry to get a pack of gum at the store and perhaps win because it embarrasses an adult. At home, it wouldn't fly. Don't do it, he said. "No means no and has to mean no all the time. It's easier to withhold power from a child than to give it and then try to take it back.""

  80. By adriennek

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    THANK YOU! Love the article. Especially this part: "Parents may behave differently in different settings, Bober said. A child can cry to get a pack of gum at the store and perhaps win because it embarrasses an adult. At home, it wouldn't fly. Don't do it, he said. "No means no and has to mean no all the time. It's easier to withhold power from a child than to give it and then try to take it back.""

    Brilliant.

    It works in reverse, too - I've had people ask how we got our kids to stay in high chairs in restaurants. They sat in a high chair at home. And crying at home didn't get them out of the high chair, either.

  81. By currence

    We saw this last weekend at Legoland. We were there with friends who were about the same age as our kids (approx 7 & 5) and their boy was having a meltdown. I don't recall specifically what triggered it, but he was literally hitting dad, who just sat there and took it, with no consequence to the kid. Dad then decided that the kid was melting down because he was hungry so they left in search of food. They returned a few minutes later with a bag of popcorn. Really? Your kid is melting down and gets a treat?

    Later, my kid's behavior was a little rowdier than I preferred and I calmly asked him if he needed a time-out. My kid said no and immediately fixed his behavior. The other kid seemed shocked that my child still got time-outs. My child also lost dessert that day for something else, which is one of my husband's favorite things to take away. But typically I would prefer to immediately correct the behavior and move-on, rather than to have a delayed punishment.

    I wasn't planning on still giving kids time-outs when they were in High School, but at what age are those replaced with other forms of punishment? I felt bad threatening one in front of his friend after his friend reacted so strongly. We also take away "electronics" based on behavior at school but most of what we put a kid in time-out for is behavior that needs to immediately stop, ideally with a few minutes to reflect on why the behavior was inappropriate. Do older kids still get put in "time-out" without it being called that (aka "go to your room")?

  82. By adriennek

    Quote Originally Posted by currence View Post
    Dad then decided that the kid was melting down because he was hungry so they left in search of food. They returned a few minutes later with a bag of popcorn. Really? Your kid is melting down and gets a treat?
    I will say this: We do have this issue, usually with one of my "Bookends" - a meltdown caused by low-blood sugar. That said, while yes, we'll get food for them, there will usually be a consequence for the meltdown. There have been times that the meltdown was entirely my fault for not paying better attention to the child. The consequence might be something along the lines of: Ok, well, clearly, we can't stop to do this ride right now, you need to take a break. The snack might be popcorn - with string cheese out of a back pack. Usually it's a pretzel. It wouldn't be ice cream, that's for sure.

    I wasn't planning on still giving kids time-outs when they were in High School, but at what age are those replaced with other forms of punishment? I felt bad threatening one in front of his friend after his friend reacted so strongly. We also take away "electronics" based on behavior at school but most of what we put a kid in time-out for is behavior that needs to immediately stop, ideally with a few minutes to reflect on why the behavior was inappropriate. Do older kids still get put in "time-out" without it being called that (aka "go to your room")?

    We have a very structured consequence system that consists of assigning chores for breaking rules that applies to children of every age in our home. (The consequences are modified for the youngest versus the oldest to even out the playing field. A chore might be too hard for the youngest so he gets an adaptation of the chore.) But. We do the things you've described here. It's still a time out even if we don't call it a time out. We'll send children to their rooms. We take away electronics, including television, hand-held games, etc. They get grounded until they finish their chores - so the time-outs might last more than a few minutes or carry over more than a day. Currently there's a child in our home who is grounded from electronics for a couple of weeks because he took advantage of a situation this weekend. Taking it away for one day doesn't work because he might not even miss it in one day - He has so much time spent at school, Scouts, church and with homework that if we only took it away for a day or two or a week, he might not even have a chance to miss it.

  83. By Malcon10t

    Quote Originally Posted by currence View Post
    I wasn't planning on still giving kids time-outs when they were in High School, but at what age are those replaced with other forms of punishment? I felt bad threatening one in front of his friend after his friend reacted so strongly. We also take away "electronics" based on behavior at school but most of what we put a kid in time-out for is behavior that needs to immediately stop, ideally with a few minutes to reflect on why the behavior was inappropriate. Do older kids still get put in "time-out" without it being called that (aka "go to your room")?

    I think the term changed from "Time Out" to "Grounded" as they got older. And I rarely used their rooms for time outs, they were too interesting, too much there for them. The bathroom was a time out spot for a while (until there was an incident there...) Or in the hallway.

    Just a note, if you are absent-minded, or have a lot on your mind and tend to forget things, make sure you note WHY you have grounded them... That way, when they call the next day and say "Mom, I know I am grounded, but can you remind me why? I don't remember...." you don't have to say "I have no clue." And then let them off cause how can you punish them when no one knows what for.... BTDT...

  84. By lauras5boys

    If one of the kids is melting down the first thing we do is feed them. Popcorn is one of the things we use and I have no issues with that. I do think parents get too caught up in worrying that they are giving in to bad behavior and get too strict. Kids don't need to be on such a tight leash. They learn good behavior by watching their parents. If mine act up, I whisper. It usually works. I feed them. I redirect....all the normal stuff parents do. Most important thing is to remain calm yourself (which can be hard with 5 whining boys) but if you remain calm it all works out pretty quickly. And let the little stuff go. Pick which battles are really important.

  85. By bumblebeeonarose

    I "grounded" my three year-old the other day. She had been watching Mickey's Prince and the Pauper just fine. (And this is what I get for not paying better attention) She suddenly dumped a cup of water on baby brother's face. She has been obsessed with playing with water (from the fridge) lately and has been punished for it every time, but continues to do it. I turned the TV off and announced that there would be no TV and no treats for 2 days. We went to my MIL's the next day (where DD wanted candy but couldn't have any). MIL said that 2 days was too long for a three year-old. I explained that she had already had most of her TV time the day it happened (and a treat) so only taking the privileges away on that day would not have mattered since she'd already had them. She still said she was too young for punishments to carry over to the next day. But it worked! She hasn't played with the water again.

  86. By adriennek

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    I think the term changed from "Time Out" to "Grounded" as they got older. And I rarely used their rooms for time outs, they were too interesting, too much there for them. The bathroom was a time out spot for a while (until there was an incident there...) Or in the hallway.

    The stair landing. It doesn't usually get that far but someone had to sit on the stair landing for a while the other day and he did NOT like it. (It's really a mid-way landing, not at the top of the stairs.) I kept trying to find a place that he couldn't turn into something interesting. That one did it.

  87. By DisneyFunFamily4

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post

    Just a note, if you are absent-minded, or have a lot on your mind and tend to forget things, make sure you note WHY you have grounded them... That way, when they call the next day and say "Mom, I know I am grounded, but can you remind me why? I don't remember...." you don't have to say "I have no clue." And then let them off cause how can you punish them when no one knows what for.... BTDT...

    Oh my, I'm cracking up. This is SO me! Both girls have asked me "mommy why did you take my (insert electronic device here, TV etc) away?" Me: "gosh, I dont remember but you must have done something bad" but on the bright side the other child will usually remember why since they are the one who didn't get in trouble. I'm really glad I'm not the only one.

  88. By Mermaid

    Yesterday, I threw away my first toy. M dumped his toy box (again) and was saying "It was too hard to clean up." I calmly explained he must have too many toys so I would throw some away until he could do the job. I threw away a little rubber ball.... the crying starts. No cleaning. I went back and threw away a teeny rubber duckie that has never been looked at. The crying gets LOUD- but the cleaning starts quickly! He asked for Duckie today, but I reminded him Duckie got throw away. I am hoping this lesson sticks... for a while at least!

  89. By currence

    Just a thought Mermaid - at our house the toys get donated to charity/kids who will treat them nicely/kids who don't have way too many, rather than thrown away. Not that charity necessarily needs a little rubber ball or duckie, but just a thought if you need to escalate in the future.

  90. By Mermaid

    Oooh good idea. I was hoping he would kick it in gear soon as I was running out of cheapie toys and I wasn't really wanting to throw away one that he truly does like... at least not yet. I am willing to if need be.... but it made an impact for now. I like the charity idea for the real toys in the future though!

  91. By candles71

    G and B would dump their whole toy box looking for something specific. I figured out shelves with tubs worked much better for them. More organized. They only got out the tub they wanted. Hot wheels for instance. B knew he had to pick up all the hot wheels before he could get out the next tub. There was some allowances made like using the blocks to make roads for instance. They had an easier time and cleaning up the whole thing was less daunting.
    I forgot this and had a toybox for N. We were given it. It didn't last too long, although she didn't mind cleaning up the "whole" thing.

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